Curse

Lishy · Aug 10, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Pleeeease anet, revert Pious Assault!
Dervishes were completely fine at the start of NF until you messed them up with your pvp nerfs and supposed "buffs"

Bring back how dervishes were intended to be used with enchantment juggling and mysticsm.

/thread

Snow Bunny · Aug 10, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

It's on-call deep wound with very little drawback.

Retarded idea.

Evasion Twenty · Aug 10, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

What was the other function?

Lishy · Aug 10, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

It's on-call deep wound with very little drawback.

Retarded idea.

And yet, why is it nobody uses the new pious assault? Oh, because it sucks?

Retarded argument. There are other, better ways to DW anyways than this crappy version of a skill.

The other pious assault allowed constant enchantment juggling, allowing you to spam a powerful attack skills while continuously unleashing upon excellent AoE effects
In a way, Dervishes use to be as intended. A Melee caster.

In modern day gw, if they revert pious, an extreme nuke revolving around Eternal Aura and Aura of Holy Might is extremely likely.
Eternal Aura is like a Dervish AP, except only requires the simple removal of itself and starts up with a whopping 80+ armor ignoring damage.
And now with new tools like Sand Shards, I can imagine quite an awesome build revolving around Eternal Aura and Sand Shards juggling, using Aura of Thorns to kite everyone (And pull off bleeding too)

Of course, this is still theoretically possible with a mystic sandstorm build, but nothing, I repeat, nothing, will be on par with what builds Pious Assault opened since it allowed you to deal high melee damage at the same time.

One may question the e-management in all this. Well, consider this. This is back when Dervishes worked as intended and Mysticism was quite the primary because you'd constantly be sacreficing enchantments.

Don't you remember enchantment juggling?

Dervishes are a brilliant concept and I want to see something like them in GW2. It's the execution on modern day GW that failed.

@Evasion Twenty:
It was a cheap, pwoerful attack skill before that for the price of sacrificing an enchantment, instantly recharges. It sounds crappy, but I don't see any Dervish skills that can beat it for enchantment juggling since this is the one skill without a recharge.

HawkofStorms · Aug 10, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

No, because if anybody wants to spam DW with a Derv, they go Wounding Strike in PvP or Wearing Strike/Melendrus in PvE (with eternal aura). It isn't that its bad. Far from it. It's just not as good as alternatives.

Trylo · Aug 10, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

i use it. on a war. mainly with swords because theyre the only line that doesnt get an auto DW skill.

just because its not used doesnt make it a bad skill, its just so far outclassed by wounding strike (and wearying strike on mel), like hawkofstorms said.

Bob Slydell · Aug 10, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

/SIGNED

It's one of those skills (like splinter weapon) that was nerfed when PvE and PvP shared the same skills and those were nerfed for PvP purposes. Once the skills were split up in two different setups (PvE and PvP) many good skills stayed the same for PvP but where never reverted to the original revision for PvE.

Evasion Twenty · Aug 10, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

/signed

Anet needs to learn to cope with both PvP and PvE skills, not nerf them both

Lishy · Aug 10, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

No, because if anybody wants to spam DW with a Derv, they go Wounding Strike in PvP or Wearing Strike/Melendrus in PvE (with eternal aura). It isn't that its bad. Far from it. It's just not as good as alternatives.

Wait, what? Pious Assault wouldn't be good for enchantment juggling? What's better? Enlighten me?

ajc2123 · Aug 10, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

/signed.

I liked the older version also.

Granted theres nothing wrong with this one, but most dervs bring other DW skills anyways,

Reverend Dr · Aug 10, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Wait, what? Pious Assault wouldn't be good for enchantment juggling? What's better? Enlighten me?

Twin moon.

Seriously, the new pious is far superior to the old pious. Like most things in the game that are "bad" the only reason that they are "bad" is that there are far overpowered options. Do you seriously expect over 1,300 skill to all have a their own niche function in the game where no other combination can compete with it?

Look at the closest relative, MtG. How many cards in that game do not see play, have never seen play, and never will see play?

Celtus · Aug 11, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I use pious assault quite often. its still good for 'enchant juggling' as you say, sometimes i use it with mirage cloak for deep wound+scythe damage+cloak damage. i did like the old skill also (back at NF release). but pious assault is still better than many of the scythe attacks..its probably the best non-elite deep wound you can use with scythe, besides wearying strike..but unless you have avatar of melandru or something to quickly take condition off yourself, wearying strike will gimp your build anyways..

your best bet for 'enchant juggling' with attack skills now would be twin moon sweep and irresistible sweep, both very very good attack skills with fairly short recharges.

[DE] · Aug 11, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Dervishes were completely fine at the start of NF until you messed them up with your pvp nerfs and supposed "buffs"

"The Avatars of Grenth and Melandru were well-balanced" is what I got from that statement.

Sometimes you need to look past your personal builds, or personal thoughts on what skills you would like to use, and instead, realize what is good for the health of the game.

Lishy · Aug 11, 2009, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Twin moon.

The old Pious Assault wasn't used for damage though. It was used for an instant-recharging self enchantment removal of a single enchantment on you, allowing you to juggle efficiently while keeping up a decent source of scythe damage.
And how do you compare a recharge of 6 to an instant recharge? I guess us Dervish players are spoiled because we use to be able to remove our enchantments one at a time using only 1 skill that recharges instantly like the golden days of a dervish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

"The Avatars of Grenth and Melandru were well-balanced" is what I got from that statement.

Sometimes you need to look past your personal builds, or personal thoughts on what skills you would like to use, and instead, realize what is good for the health of the game.

Whoops. I guess I forgot about the avatars.
But let my point come across that Dervishes use to work exactly as they were intended.
It's not personal thoughts on skills I would like to use. It's the core of the Dervish pre-nerf. Partly the reason Dervishes are totally outclassed by the other professions is because their skills were changed so much, their role is limited to a weak scythe attacker.

If Pious Assault isn't reverted, the least Dervishes should get is another skill to work almost the same way. While at it, a mysticsm buff.

draxynnic · Aug 11, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

If Pious Assault isn't reverted, the least Dervishes should get is another skill to work almost the same way. While at it, a mysticism buff.

This is what I was thinking. Doesn't necessarily need to be Pious Assault, but Dervishes should have some attack skill that throws off enchantments and recharges instantly if it does so. (Signets don't do the job - they give the enemy a chance to escape.)

Pious Assault does have the most appropriate name. Since they're looking for a role for Aura Slicer, maybe if the current version doesn't prove popular they could revert Pious, and make Aura Slicer do what Pious does now?

Reverend Dr · Aug 11, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

And how do you compare a recharge of 6 to an instant recharge?

You don't need to juggle enchantments more than once every 6 seconds. Also using a skill just to juggle enchantments is moronic, you also need to get +dmg in there. In all seriousness, what enchantments are you juggling so fast?

If just juggling enchantments is worthwild, then use contemplation of purity, also we are at the horrible Nightfall beta.

draxynnic · Aug 11, 2009, 07:08 AM // 07:08

The old Pious Assault did have +damage, the same as it does now. They just replaced the conditional instant recharge with an unconditional deep wound.

The point, though, was for quickly casting and throwing off the likes of Dust Cloak, Staggering Force and Heart of Holy Flame - a build that does benefit from being able to dump enchantments quickly. Since they have recharges around 15 seconds, it's not that hard to get enough of them on your bar that you want to be dumping them faster than every 6 seconds - especially if you go cast-cast-cast-drop-drop-drop instead of cast-drop-cast-drop.

Even without considering that CoP comes from the primary attribute of another profession, there are other options already in the Dervish line: Signet of Pious Light and Signet of Pious Restraint to give two examples. The problem with each of these skills is that they don't keep you adjacent to the enemy you're trying to hit with the end-effect. You need an attack skill or a touch skill to do that. (Heck, come to think on it, if you want to get rid of them all at once, Mystic Sandstorm is a much better option than CoP.)

Lishy · Aug 11, 2009, 07:27 AM // 07:27

offtopic: Come to think of it, has anyone actually ever used mystic sandstorm + eternal aura for a spike?

Anyways, any objections to having a skill to serve the same purpose as pious assault pre-change? Hopefully next month?

Reverend Dr · Aug 11, 2009, 09:53 PM // 21:53

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Derv_Spike

Of dust cloak, staggering force, and heart of holy flame, the only enchant that actually matters is dust cloak for the blind.

Weakness from staggering is terribly inefficient. Enfeebling blood horribly outclasses it, and Armor of Sanctity will do the same, but less energy, faster recharge, and faster cast time.

Fire from Heart of Holy flame. Oh man, 3 seconds of burning is so much damage. Gotta make sure we cycle this one as fast as possible to get that amazing DOMAGE.

This is where I say that the enchantments you are juggling aren't worth juggling. Hence the "need" for the old pious never existed. The new pious is completely superior and I stand by that statement.

Lishy · Aug 11, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Oh, so you object to a revert or skill of similar effect simply because heart of holy flame sucks and some skills outclass some dervish skills.

You're a genius <____________________<